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	<title>Comments on: In Case of Case&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://mitcho.com/blog/projects/in-case-of-case/</link>
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	<item>
		<title>By: mitcho</title>
		<link>http://mitcho.com/blog/projects/in-case-of-case/comment-page-1/#comment-2029</link>
		<dc:creator>mitcho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 00:59:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mitcho.com/blog/?p=1994#comment-2029</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ah, thank you for the correction.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, thank you for the correction.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: mlchung</title>
		<link>http://mitcho.com/blog/projects/in-case-of-case/comment-page-1/#comment-2025</link>
		<dc:creator>mlchung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mitcho.com/blog/?p=1994#comment-2025</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;i think your comment on Latin is not correct because Latin case marking system is nom-acc thus nominative marks subject (intransitive) and agent(transitive) and accusative marks patient(object in transitive) distinctively. 
canis virum momordit should be translated to &quot;dog bit man&quot; 
vir canem morodit should be &quot;man bit dog&quot; 
canis is marked with nominative thus it is agent and virum is marked with accusative thus it is patient and same rule will be applied in the second sentence.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think your comment on Latin is not correct because Latin case marking system is nom-acc thus nominative marks subject (intransitive) and agent(transitive) and accusative marks patient(object in transitive) distinctively. 
canis virum momordit should be translated to &quot;dog bit man&quot; 
vir canem morodit should be &quot;man bit dog&quot; 
canis is marked with nominative thus it is agent and virum is marked with accusative thus it is patient and same rule will be applied in the second sentence.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Traveller</title>
		<link>http://mitcho.com/blog/projects/in-case-of-case/comment-page-1/#comment-1822</link>
		<dc:creator>Traveller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 21:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mitcho.com/blog/?p=1994#comment-1822</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Three comments here:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Your data on German is not entirely correct - as in my example of the &quot;translate&quot; verb in the i18n discussion, there are nouns derived from Adjectives (das Englische, die Angestellte, etc.) that have case-based adjectival inflection (&quot;ins Englische&quot; -- into english / &quot;aus dem Englischen&quot; -- from english). While in this case you can use prepositions for role assignment, someone still has to deal with the noun modification.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There are other examples of  noun modification in German, the genitive case (&quot;der Vater&quot; =&gt; &quot;des Vaters&quot;) which is somewhat equivalent to english posessive, and a completely irregular plural -- but fortunately it doesn&#039;t look like those are relevant for Ubiquity.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The other thing is, that in strongly case-based languages -- like your polish example -- somebody has to deal with the noun modification resulting from the case, even in those cases where there is an alternative way to identify role of arguments. Which leads me to the third thing:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Russian does not actually have an natural alternative to case-marking in all cases. Consider &quot;search for hello using google&quot; (I am going to use a russian &quot;romanji&quot; equivalent because my keyboard is not configured for cyrillic):&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;naidi hello guglem&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;or&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;naidi guglem hello&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;alternative:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;naidi hello s pomosh&#039;y guglya&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;literal translation &quot;find hello with the help of google&quot;, and about as natural for a russian to think of and type as that. The same applies for all &quot;with some tool&quot; type of expressions.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;To be fair, if one can think of google as a place where you search for something, as opposed to a means/tool for the search, one might be able to use &quot;naidi hello v gugle&quot; instead (as in &quot;find hello in google&quot; or &quot;search google for hello&quot;), but that might not be possible with each and every tool out there. In some cases, case is really the only way to go.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;However specifically in case of limited number of nouns, like a list of search engines, the list itself  could easily serve as a role identifier, and there would not be a need to use an adposition.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Three comments here:</p>

<p>Your data on German is not entirely correct - as in my example of the &quot;translate&quot; verb in the i18n discussion, there are nouns derived from Adjectives (das Englische, die Angestellte, etc.) that have case-based adjectival inflection (&quot;ins Englische&quot; &#8212; into english / &quot;aus dem Englischen&quot; &#8212; from english). While in this case you can use prepositions for role assignment, someone still has to deal with the noun modification.</p>

<p>There are other examples of  noun modification in German, the genitive case (&quot;der Vater&quot; =&gt; &quot;des Vaters&quot;) which is somewhat equivalent to english posessive, and a completely irregular plural &#8212; but fortunately it doesn&#039;t look like those are relevant for Ubiquity.</p>

<p>The other thing is, that in strongly case-based languages &#8212; like your polish example &#8212; somebody has to deal with the noun modification resulting from the case, even in those cases where there is an alternative way to identify role of arguments. Which leads me to the third thing:</p>

<p>Russian does not actually have an natural alternative to case-marking in all cases. Consider &quot;search for hello using google&quot; (I am going to use a russian &quot;romanji&quot; equivalent because my keyboard is not configured for cyrillic):</p>

<p>naidi hello guglem</p>

<p>or</p>

<p>naidi guglem hello</p>

<p>alternative:</p>

<p>naidi hello s pomosh&#039;y guglya</p>

<p>literal translation &quot;find hello with the help of google&quot;, and about as natural for a russian to think of and type as that. The same applies for all &quot;with some tool&quot; type of expressions.</p>

<p>To be fair, if one can think of google as a place where you search for something, as opposed to a means/tool for the search, one might be able to use &quot;naidi hello v gugle&quot; instead (as in &quot;find hello in google&quot; or &quot;search google for hello&quot;), but that might not be possible with each and every tool out there. In some cases, case is really the only way to go.</p>

<p>However specifically in case of limited number of nouns, like a list of search engines, the list itself  could easily serve as a role identifier, and there would not be a need to use an adposition.</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Adding Your Language to Ubiquity Parser 2</title>
		<link>http://mitcho.com/blog/projects/in-case-of-case/comment-page-1/#comment-1289</link>
		<dc:creator>Adding Your Language to Ubiquity Parser 2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 05:59:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mitcho.com/blog/?p=1994#comment-1289</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] er even with only the prepositions/postpositions in your language, that would be a great benefit in getting started in your language. UPDATE: a proposal on how to deal with strongly case-marked languages has been written here: In Case of Case&#8230;. [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] er even with only the prepositions/postpositions in your language, that would be a great benefit in getting started in your language. UPDATE: a proposal on how to deal with strongly case-marked languages has been written here: In Case of Case&#8230;. [&#8230;]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: mitcho</title>
		<link>http://mitcho.com/blog/projects/in-case-of-case/comment-page-1/#comment-1280</link>
		<dc:creator>mitcho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 12:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mitcho.com/blog/?p=1994#comment-1280</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Julen, thanks for checking out the article! Unfortunately that Basque data isn&#039;t from me myself, but from that paper I cited. :/ Sorry about that.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julen, thanks for checking out the article! Unfortunately that Basque data isn&#039;t from me myself, but from that paper I cited. :/ Sorry about that.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Julen</title>
		<link>http://mitcho.com/blog/projects/in-case-of-case/comment-page-1/#comment-1279</link>
		<dc:creator>Julen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 10:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mitcho.com/blog/?p=1994#comment-1279</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Nice to see a Basque example here!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Anyway, I think there&#039;s a mistake on the example c).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&#039;hon-i&#039; is incorrect, as &#039;hon&#039; doesn&#039;t exist as a demonstrative word (even as a word) so it doesn&#039;t mean &#039;this&#039;. I think it&#039;s been written like this just to mark the separation between the &quot;word&quot; and the suffix.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The translation for &#039;this&#039; is &#039;hau&#039;, so the example may show &#039;hau-ri&#039;, which ends up in &#039;honi&#039;.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice to see a Basque example here!</p>

<p>Anyway, I think there&#8217;s a mistake on the example c).</p>

<p>&#8216;hon-i&#8217; is incorrect, as &#8216;hon&#8217; doesn&#8217;t exist as a demonstrative word (even as a word) so it doesn&#8217;t mean &#8216;this&#8217;. I think it&#8217;s been written like this just to mark the separation between the &#8220;word&#8221; and the suffix.</p>

<p>The translation for &#8216;this&#8217; is &#8216;hau&#8217;, so the example may show &#8216;hau-ri&#8217;, which ends up in &#8216;honi&#8217;.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: mitcho</title>
		<link>http://mitcho.com/blog/projects/in-case-of-case/comment-page-1/#comment-1274</link>
		<dc:creator>mitcho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 15:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mitcho.com/blog/?p=1994#comment-1274</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ah, danke. I&#039;ve made the correction. :)&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, danke. I&#039;ve made the correction. <img src='http://mitcho.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Fred</title>
		<link>http://mitcho.com/blog/projects/in-case-of-case/comment-page-1/#comment-1273</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 15:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mitcho.com/blog/?p=1994#comment-1273</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Very good blog post!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I think there&#039;s a little mistake in your German example though: 
den     gro&#223;en Hund 
the=NOM big    dog&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;den&quot; is not nominative, it&#039;s accusative case.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good blog post!</p>

<p>I think there&#039;s a little mistake in your German example though: 
den     gro&szlig;en Hund 
the=NOM big    dog</p>

<p>&quot;den&quot; is not nominative, it&#039;s accusative case.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://mitcho.com/blog/projects/in-case-of-case/comment-page-1/#comment-1272</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 05:35:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mitcho.com/blog/?p=1994#comment-1272</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is really awesome, Mitcho! As a linguist and a computer enthusiast, I found this blog post to be interesting and well thought-out. I am impressed.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;When talking about this stuff with Jono, I have always been caught up on point one, about the case of a particular item being difficult to identify. I was especially hung up on those situations where declining the noun was difficult for computers (irregular markings, ablaut, etc.). As for the point about delimiting the whole phrasal argument, I had never thought of that before, and it looks quite problematic.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;For the third point, I would suggest picking the declension that would be most likely to occur in a Ubiquity command in general. I would guess this would be accusative for nom/acc languages, and absolutive for ergative/absolutive languages. For example, let&#039;s say your language has an instrumental case, and you ask Ubiquity to translate something using Google. Ubiquity would represent Google.instrumental as two words: an abstract instrumental &quot;preposition&quot; and Google inflected for the accusative.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is really awesome, Mitcho! As a linguist and a computer enthusiast, I found this blog post to be interesting and well thought-out. I am impressed.</p>

<p>When talking about this stuff with Jono, I have always been caught up on point one, about the case of a particular item being difficult to identify. I was especially hung up on those situations where declining the noun was difficult for computers (irregular markings, ablaut, etc.). As for the point about delimiting the whole phrasal argument, I had never thought of that before, and it looks quite problematic.</p>

<p>For the third point, I would suggest picking the declension that would be most likely to occur in a Ubiquity command in general. I would guess this would be accusative for nom/acc languages, and absolutive for ergative/absolutive languages. For example, let&#039;s say your language has an instrumental case, and you ask Ubiquity to translate something using Google. Ubiquity would represent Google.instrumental as two words: an abstract instrumental &quot;preposition&quot; and Google inflected for the accusative.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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